Thursday, September 10, 2009
Watch this (stay with it--the music can be irksome) asking: How does Mandelblot's discovery relate to language? How can I use this in my language practice: or, barring that, at all? Namely, can you register in writing how it changes your dialect (dia- "across, between" + legein "speak")? May writing/language be (associated with) a fractal form?
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Mandelbolt"s discovery on fractal particles relates to language because they are both very similar and unique. Fractals are small particles that are pieced together to form a picture or even a larger particle. This is similar to language because we piece words together to form a language by adding and multiplying letters to form the words in the first place. The way they describe Fractal's is through a mathematical equation that either adds or multiples numbers that transform the particles making them smaller or larger.I Also I think that this is the same for all languages they are pieces of words strung together to form sentences or even words themselves.I think this can also change dialect because in language there are words such as but, and, or etc.. that are conjunction words these words add other words together form complete sentences in our dialect.
ReplyDelete~ Erica
Language is a great example of Mandelblot's discovery. Letters and symbols in themselves are representations of language, and when added together to make meanings, give way to forms of communication. I also believe that writing/language is a form of fractals because their is a history to where the letters/symbols came from, like we researched in our last assignment. In a fractal, there is then another fractal and another and another, etc. Just like in letters, there is a meaning behind it and where it came from, which then has another meaning and origin behind that meaning.
ReplyDeleteAshley
Language relates to Mandelblot's discovery about fractals becuase they are both very complex. Fractals are small particals that are infinitely complex that when put together form something bigger and different. I feel that this relates to language because we piece letters and sounds together to form language or a way of communicating. I think that writing/language is a form of fractals because we have words that link ideas together to express our thoughts more broadly, just like fractals link together to create another complex picture and so on until infinity.
ReplyDeleteMandelblot's discovery on fractals relates to language because they are very similiar. Fractals are smaller pieces that fit together to make a big picture. Letters are small characters that fit together to form words, and words form together to make sentences/thoughts/ideas. These thoughts and ideas fit together to make stories, novels, a form of writing. Both, fractals and language are quite unique because they are still changing and becoming more advanced. Simple fractions make complex results, this is true for both language and fractals.
ReplyDeleteLanguage is only what the human race uses to communicate. It is just a system that works from a single base; this base was established long before we were born. When our languages were first blooming these bases were created. Let’s use Latin as an example. It is the root language of our language : English. If we relate Latin to the “bug” that was first shown we can say that English is one of these “distortions” that were on the edges of the bug. By the time we zoom in to English, our present day language, Latin is left far behind and no longer significant. But what we see is that after Latin is no longer considered important after we zoom in we see mini Mandelbrot sets or references back to Latin just cycling over and over. The influences of the root language is shown over and over and we see the root language’s impact on the present language. Even our language today is being updated and changed daily. Even after our language changes significantly we will still see traces of today’s language and all the base languages that have influenced our languages before.
ReplyDelete- Yujin
I suppose that one can relate language to fractals because of the intricacies that can be attributed to both. I also think that both, when looked at in the bigger picture, appear to be one thing, but when you delve deeper into the meanings, sources, and attributes of both, you unveil a myriad of information you never knew existed. Just like Mandelbrot's set, the more you examine and explore language, the more you'll find. I think that one can appreciate language more when relating our speech to the idea of fractals and through that, we can use and apply our language in a million different ways.
ReplyDeleteLanguage is related to The Mandleblots discovery because of its infinite potential. The Mandleblot's figure, when magnified can span infinitely . If you take language across the world, its potential is also unlimited. There will be new words, sayings and as long as language exist, there will always be new words. This will lead to new creativity in writing with combining words to make a new one.
ReplyDeleteFractals also plays a part in language. For example, if you take a word and trace its origin it will have relationships with so many past languages such as Latin.
Language is a great example of Mandelblot's discovery of fractals. They are both similar to one another. Both are small things. When they are formed together they make a bigger picture, or meaning. Fractals, when put together, make a bigger picture, and letters when formed together, create symbols and words more meaning, and communication. With both fractals and letters, when looked at broadly appear to make a bigger picture when formed together, but when looked at closely, a deeper meaning is discovered.
ReplyDeleteThe Mandelbot set has infinite complexity and layers and layers of detail. This can be related to the different layers of writing and speech. The bible is and has been interpreted several different ways by separate individuals looking deeper into the meaning of it's text. We can see how our language can be picked apart to find its etymology, where the root of the word comes from, what region, what ethnic group and so on to learn the basis of the meaning of that word. It was interesting to hear Stephen Hawking's comment about having a limited smallness in size.This contradicts the Mandelbot's set infinite implications. The fact that the "output of one operation is the input of another" can be related to a dialect between two persons listening to each other, processing, and outputing the results of that information.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I got out of this what most did. Fractals are a smaller part of of a bigger picture seen once magnified. Letters or symbols are also a small part of an indefinite bigger picture with great chance for interpretation of meaning.
ReplyDeleteI found the quote, "With very simple formulas you can get very complicated results" significant. Take the English alphabet, for example. These letters are the formula for a writer to use. The words, sentences, etc. (results) created have great potential for varying interpretation by a reader, which could lead to some very complicated results.
When languages are formed, they build upon one another. For instance, we look at the Romance languages. The words that are used are derived from Latin, which is like on of the fractals referenced in the video. A language like French has these layers of similar words, that show up, similar to Mendelblot's discovery. I feel that writing is a fractal form, mainly because it is pieces put together that eventually make up something larger. All of the characters themselves take their own form, but as we build them up together, it forms something that we can understand better.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways I can see how fractals relate to language. The fractal equation reminds me of the homolinguistic translations we are doing in class, how taking words from a poem and changing them to other words. Then we could also translate that poem too if we wanted, and repeat the process over and over again if we desire. Due to these translations, the poem changes a little bit every time. This is like the visualizations in the movie. Every time a new number enters the equation, which comes from the previous equation, it changes the visualization a little bit every time.
ReplyDeleteI feel that you can use this in teaching. The only way I can think of is with the translations. So far we know about using similar linguistics and sounds, but i guess you can use any variable in your equation that you want.
I also feel that it does change you dialect in regards to communication. When you read something, you always seem to take your own interpretation out of it. Then someone takes there interoperation out of what you said, and so on. If you think about it his way, perhaps the history of language follows Mandelbot's model. Look at old english, middle english and modern english. The new words and pronunciations that are created, and whats left behind. And it doesn't stop there, think about other things that have changed overtime. Or going even deeper-the thoughts you have now and the thoughts stemming out of your previous thoughts, and the thoughts that come out of that...
I dont know if anyone noticed, but Mandelblot.. is actually Dr. Madelbrot, but that doesn't matter. As writing is, the sets are unique, however people may see whatever they want in them. They often resemble many everyday objects, and writing can be that as well. It is not unusual for writing to resemble situations that are in our everyday life, or that are close to our conscience.
ReplyDeleteHowever, math is very exact and complex. Language, and especially creative literature, follows some fundamental rules, but can be manipulated. "Poems are rhyming bodies of words", "A sentence must not be too long, and paragraphs are four sentences in the least", not many of the rules are followed as strictly as the rules to the sets are.
-Tori
Fractal forms indicate that everything is build up from many small things and builds upon previous things. This is exactly how language works. All languages relate to eachother but got slightly changed over time into entirely new languages. And these languages are constantly evolving.
ReplyDeleteYou should be aware that languages and your own vocabulary are constantly evolving and you should always try to develop yourself in such a sense. Being from another country I feel like I ahve been going through this process with the English language ever since I came here.
I found the mandlebot set very intersesting, especially when thinking about how it relates to language. I think of the fractals as being like the alphabet. Everything you need is in that simple set of letters. But useing those letter you can form words, sentances, paragraphs, novels. The meanings of each of these is infinite, just like mandlebot set. In any writing new meanings can be found and interpreted as many new things can be found as you want to find.
ReplyDelete-Rachel W.
The Mandelbrot set shows that something unique and infinite comes from something simple. Language is the same. You can a simple word or phrase and can make it into many infinite creations. To be honest, it's a huge amount to wrap your mind around. I'm still reeling a bit. However, using this in language,well, aren't we already? According to the video we've used the Mandelbrot before, in our subconscious. Language is already infinite and many different languages mimic each other, in written and in spoken word. Dialects copy each other and there's a little piece of a different language inside,say, an English word, just like there's little Mandelbrot inside a Mandelbrot.
ReplyDeleteAnd, so yes, writing/language is a fractal form of the first writings/languages.
Fractal geometry, as displayed in the video, can be used to illustrate practically any existing thing but, what it seems to do best is to illustrate things that don't exist. This can also be true about language. We can use language OR fractal geometry to represent things that are tangible or things that are completely fictional. Either way, we can apply both to a specific formula and get different results depending on what your input is. One is just as creative as the other.
ReplyDeleteMandelbrots set is very unique. I see this as the same as how we use language and how we learn to communicate with one another. As far as using pictures and giving them meaning, its the same. Yes,I agree that writing and language is a fractal form of the beginning languages.
ReplyDeleteTerika
i think that the fractals relate language first because it's based on a system that we all know, or come to know, by way of the very simplest of formulas. second, because language stems by way of letters to words to sentences to speech to opinion and it's completely organic. ultimately, i think that language is related to fractals in that language is the connection between individuals to relay a message to another by way of speech but really it's all the same pattern.
ReplyDeleteMandelblot's discovery on fractal particles relates to language in many ways. For one, fractal particles represent everything being formed from one little item to make a bigger item, and that forming an even larger item, and so on. Similar to this idea, is the idea of language. Each word is made of individual letters, which form sentences, and paragraphs, and essays and stories and so on. Also, similar to mandelblot's findings, it can be seen that each writing can have many interpretations depending on the reader, and there is no right or wrong answer for translation.
ReplyDeleteConcepts are concepts because we make them concepts--because we give them those attributes. For instance, if a piece of a picture is cropped out and re-pixelized using the Mandelblot set, it will be restructured, predicting what it would have looked like in higher resolution. This is writing and speaking in its purest form, because we can destroy and reconstruct concepts. The constituents of that concept will be different depending on how we choose to structure it. According to John R. Boyd, when you shatter the concept and all you have are the parts, there is chaos and uncertainty. In order to re-establish these, one must find a set of attributes that come together to define the set as a whole. I do agree that language or writing can be seen as fractal form, in that if one is to take out a segment from an entire piece of writing or speech, the whole meaning can change, and this process, as is the "m-set", is infinite.
ReplyDeleteI think that the discovery and thought behind fractals do have some interesting parallels with language, and the written word in-particular. Language itself, I feel, is constricting, in that words attempt to define things that are already defined by their being, making language an attempt to standardize things. I see this aspect of language like the full image of a fractal, before looking into it and seeing that it infinite. What I mean is, that while language is by nature restrictive, I think that through this inherit restrictiveness there is paradoxically also a world of great freedom. Language and the written word are by nature nature open ended and open to different interpretations. I see these possibly endless interpretations of different works like the close up of a fractal, and that one can keep going and going deeper and deeper into the heart of what has been said.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to language a lot. Language complex. Many people may think that language is all the same, meanwhile language is very unique especially when you think about all the different languages there are. We may not think language and communication is complex because it is what we were taught at a young age and what we are used to. I feel like we already use this idea in our language by communicating and speaking every day. There is such complexity to all of that commuincation but we never realize it cause it feels natural. It changes my dialect because without its complexity I would not have such a vast vocabulary or knowledge of writing words. Writing/language is associated with a fractal form because it seems simple, but when you look into it, it keeps goign back and back centuries to the very beginning of language.
ReplyDeleteMandelbrot's discovery of fractal geometry can be clearly juxtaposed with the construction of a sentence--whether written or spoken. Something as simple as the word "not" having been present or absent in a sentence re-creates the meaning of the entire thing. In the same way the Mandelblot formula creates the opportunity for infintely occuring phenomenon, so does writing and speech through its infinite nature of interpretation and editing process. To make a valid argument, logos, pathos, ethos and various other techniques can either strengthen or weaken an argument or credibility, and the absence of one can totally re-define the meaning of what is being said.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I've lost the battle against sleep by fighting to stay awake as the movie seems very mundane. I believe it relates to the movie since letters becomes words, words becomes sentences, sentences becomes paragraphs, etc. I am somewhat lost during the movie
ReplyDeleteI believe fractals relate to language because fractals are repeated like words in language are repeated. The way you use them gives the shape or outcome. In language, letters make up words, which make up sentences. A small fractal can become an infinitely large sum, just as letters and words can make up essays and books and so on. They are the root of the project that never needs an ending.
ReplyDelete-Alex Maglio
Fractile geometry can be a way to describe data. In the video it is compared to the way an architect describes a house. I personally liked this comparison when relating fractile geometry to language. It could in a sense be similar to the way an author describes language. Like small fractals creating a big picture, letters in the alphabet create words or on an even larger scale, words create ideas. Very simple formulas, such as letters, have complicated results, such as words. The colors in the images can equal anything and are widely interpreted, just as words are. Fractile geometry, like language is either as complex or as simple as you make it out to be.
ReplyDeleteI believe that fractals are a lot like language and the words that each individual chooses to construct their writing or conversation. The fractals are very minimal in size, as are words that we use to describe feelings. However, the feeling that is coming across promotes a much larger effect, just as fractals can be placed together to contribute to a larger outcome. Dr. Mandleblots discovery can branch out in a multitude of different ways, just as language can while visiting different ways of expression such as slag and appreviation. I feel that Mandlebots discovery leaves room for diversion and a change in direction, like writing, a work of literature can mean whatever the reader's response is and can not be critized. If a group of people read the same work, they might all draw a different outcome to the true meaning being expressed.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Mandlebots discovery relates to language and writing in that we can use language to describe the shape of a cloud or the spiral of a shell, but fractals actually describe the true form of the cloud or shell in a digital representation. I can use this in my writing to think about how finely I can describe a subject or how general I can describe it. As far as writing being associated with a fractal forms, I feel that letters and syntax are just arbitrary human inventions and that fractal geometry was always there. We just couldn't see it without computers or drugs.
ReplyDeleteCan language/writing be a fractal form? YES! For the simple reason that fractals build on a simple formula and expand with infinite iterations. I happen to think that many patterns recur throughout existence... our solar system resonates in the key of b flat for instance. The number 3.41.. the golden section visible in the nautilus and underlying the perfect composition of Da Vinci's paintings and the climax in a piece by Bartok...
ReplyDeleteFractal parts can be related to language because words and symbols are smaller parts of something much more grand. This grand thing just happens to be language. The whole pattern that is infinite is just like language, due to the fact that any language on this planet is infinite because it can always be expanded to something greater. Fractals can build upon each other and evolve into more complex pieces which will increase in complexity themselves. There are infinite variations to language just like to Mandelblot's pattern.
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ReplyDeleteThe discovery of the Mandelbrot set explains that an infinitely detailed item resets itself, both complexly inwards and outwards, based on the addition and multiplication principles of a simple mathematical equation. Similarly, the letters of the alphabet have history in the simplest and most primal objects. That is to say, the letters that we know today came from a human being seeing an animal, a tool, or something in nature. In this way, these letters have meaning behind them. On the other hand, we also use these letters to build ever more complex words and sentences. With a simple mathematical equation, the Mandelbrot set represents an infinite diagram of shapes and colors, and with simple letters, humans can create an infinite number of new vocabulary and sentences.
ReplyDeleteI think it is very interesting to compare language to a fractal form, as language began as symbols. As discussed in class, letters have been derived from things such as an arm, a hand, a farming tool, and so on. Eventually these symbols became the letters and language we know and use today. In the film, it is discussed that universes and infinity were around long before they were offically discovered, however it took computers to compute all of the numbers and information needed. Language has been around long before the English language and far before anything was written down.
ReplyDeleteWhen watching the explanation of fractals it was interesting to find out that when looking deeper into them, they just keep forming new forms in the same place. The fact that fractals are infinite says a lot. i think this relates to writing because if we look closer at language it started out in the simplest form and started evolving. It was built on top of each other like the fractal part we see in the video. In language or writing there seems to be islands of order in a certain disorder which can also be related to the fractals.
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